Legalising Prostitution?

[Manthor]

I know that prostitution in Singapore is legal and regulated. However do you think more stringent legislation would be in order? I figure more liberal laws and a tight framework would benefit everyone.

According to Human Rights Watch:

"Prostitution itself is not illegal; however, public solicitation, living on the earnings of a prostitute, and maintaining a brothel are illegal. The authorities periodically carried out crackdowns on solicitation for prostitution and arrested and deported foreign prostitutes, particularly when their activities took place outside informally designated red-light areas. In practice police unofficially tolerated and monitored a limited number of brothels; prostitutes in such establishments were required to undergo periodic health checks and carry a health card."

I'm thinking of writing an essay/paper on the matter, as Singapore is known to have an established sex industry. The idea is to bring sex workers under the protection of the law and provide for safer health, as well as licensing and registration. Add in the fact that ever since the IRs opened its been an economic sector which provides steady growth. So why not get the professionals in the sector and their management under the IRAS and open to taxation?

It would also have the benefit of providing protection to managers, adult entertainers, escorts and sex workers. Quoting Maggie McNeill, a former callgirl and manager of her own prostitution ring: “Taxation is a drug to government; once it becomes used to a “fix” of a certain level it will not under any circumstances voluntarily sever that income stream".

Once the government becomes addicted to the revenue generated by prostitution, then any chance of criminalisation of prostitution become near-impossible. It also generates public support and approval – if managers and escorts want public approval to operate their business then they should operate the same tax burdens as anyone else.

The European countries provide the best examples of legal models to utilise in making our own system. The best and most visible examples would be the Netherlands, Germany, Austria, Switzerland and Hungary where escorts and their managers pay a VAT (Value Added Tax) to the government and can form labour unions to set market rates.

So what do you think? Could it work? The benefits are protection for prostitutes under a legal framework and their customers as well as a reduction in interaction with the Specialised Crimes Branch of whatever body is charged with overseeing prostitution, as well as the assurance of a health coverage and increased professionalism. It would also allow the community to enforce actions against bad customers or freelancers who may undergo rape or cheating from customers.


References:

Human Rights Watch.Retrieved from http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/hrrpt...eap/119056.htm

The Honest Courtesan Blog. Retrieved from http://maggiemcneill.wordpress.com/2...-miscellanea/€

Prostitition in Switzerland. Retrieved from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostit..._Switze rland

Prostitution in Hungary. Retrieved from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_Hungary
Prostitution in the Netherlands. Retreived from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostit...he_Netherlands

Prostitution in Turkey. Retrieved from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_Turkey

Prostitution in Austra. Retrieved from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_Austria

Prostitution in Denmark. Retrieved from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_Denmark

Prostitution in Germany. Retrieved from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_Germany

Happy to discuss this further privately. I am just interested in feedback and whether it would be practical to call for this as part of policy proposals. As for that - yes, I am somewhat involved in local politics. You're not to get more from me than that.

[sedulous]

Are you working on a thesis?

[wolflust]

Ain't the joints in Geylang legalized?

The main thing is government is cracking down on the so called illegal joints offering sexual services, under vice activities.

However, there is always some reason that why we here visit the so called illegal places, the main issue is not about legalizing. Is whether the government or society willing to accept that there is such activities going on?

As you all can see, there many jokers here who keep posting information (exact locations and gals' names) of joints, brothers here visit. Plus we have online media, traditional media who keep reporting on these joints or areas.

[Johnston]

Friend: have you ever walked the streets of GL when the POLIS are in evidences????

The streetwalkers are no where to be found but the police vans are parked every few streets.... and the fish tank is still in operation about ten meters from said police van...

While im no expert on the economics of Prostitution in Singapore, we can safely say that if the GoVernment didnt want Geylang to exist they can find some reason to demolish the area in question.... (Book Hub would be good)

There is no such thing as UNOFFICIAL Toleration in singapore

[arsenal_84]

Originally Posted by wolflust

Ain't the joints in Geylang legalized?

yup, the tanks are taxed by the govt.
this is a particularly sensitive topic in asian context where even Aware does not want to tread on.
Aware often preaches about women rights but when it comes to the gray area of prostitution, their rights are no different to the rights of domestic household workers.

[goodpartner]

Since we're on this topic, where can we read or find out how this legislation was passed in the begining of Singapore law?

I'm sure there were parliamentary debate and so on (or were there?), and finally the garhmen decided to legalize prostitution in Sg; where almost all the countries around us do not.

Data and statistics on crime rates with and without red-light districts, how it affect the society, like all those debates and considerations for building casinos.

Did our founding leader just decide it based on his own idealogy? Or was the red-light district born since the world war where the japs forced local women into this trade and thus remain as a residual trade since then?

[peanut123]

I guess you could try the Hansard archives (Hansard is the record of parliamentary sittings ), but I won't put too much hope on that. Until after the recent elections, bills were hardly ever debated in parliament. They just get tabled and passed with almost no discussion.

the way I see it, Singapore allowed prostitution because the gov is ( at least the old guards were ) very pragmatic.

Given a choice between driving vice underground (where it becomes impossible to monitor and would require spending money/resources to control it) and legalizing it (so that it can be kept in check and becomes a source of tax) the pragmatic choice is obvious. This is true of all other vices in Singapore ( gambling, drinking ) with the exception of drugs.

I think the current legal restrictions of keeping to zoned redlight districts, allowing only licensed brothels to operate and mandatory healthchecks are stringent enough. In fact, I would like them to loosen the requirements a bit to allow women from any country to apply for a hooker license ( currently, legal hookers are only from Thailand, Msia and China, with China being only added 2-3 years ago ).

I would love to have the choice of girls from Europe, Japan, Korea, Africa, and Middle East added to the current mix. The thought of bonking a smoking hot Italian girl or an exotic Arabian girl makes me pretty horny.

Originally Posted by goodpartner

Since we're on this topic, where can we read or find out how this legislation was passed in the begining of Singapore law?

I'm sure there were parliamentary debate and so on (or were there?), and finally the garhmen decided to legalize prostitution in Sg; where almost all the countries around us do not.

Data and statistics on crime rates with and without red-light districts, how it affect the society, like all those debates and considerations for building casinos.

Did our founding leader just decide it based on his own idealogy? Or was the red-light district born since the world war where the japs forced local women into this trade and thus remain as a residual trade since then?

[Johnston]

hullo where did Ts go ? He's supposed to discuss if he wants any material at all for his thesis or what it is that he is work on

[goodpartner]

Originally Posted by Johnston

hullo where did Ts go ? He's supposed to discuss if he wants any material at all for his thesis or what it is that he is work on

Re-read the last paragraph from TS...

He may be asking these questions here to help the garhmen make the next big decision on the fate of sg future prostitution law and worst still... Maybe instead of relocating the red light district, garhmen now thinking of removing it?!

Omg... So run pray-pray... Better feed him with what is need to make it thrive. LoL

[asdfghjkl]

the will of the public and the free market will ensure that no government force on earth can stop this trade.

[Manthor]

Originally Posted by Johnston

hullo where did Ts go ? He's supposed to discuss if he wants any material at all for his thesis or what it is that he is work on

Bro I am still here.I'm somewhat involved at a very junior level with Young PAP. You can say that I am the most 'unorthodox' PAP person you'll find, as I advocate the legalisation of both cannabis and prostitution according to the European model, as decriminalisatin and legalisation have proven to be better avenues than combating and suppressing a problem, as the USA's attitude to drugs and prostitution shows.

I don't want to get involved in specifics due to the nature of this forum and the Internet, as well as the GE being so recent. Long story short,I voted for Worker's Party and am very open about my views within my circle. People think I'm trying to pull a Vivian Balakrishnan - voice dissenting views within the party and get recruited to shut up and play ball.

Basically, I want to work on policy proposals that would encourage social liberalisation. Policies like the above two are twofold - they encourage growth of an economic sector and develop it openly. It also helps to develop a tax base and you know how this government loves money. Long term there is a need to liberalise. Like Las Vegas, it creates economic relevance as a city that deals in legal vice and attracts money. Manufacturing on an industrial scale will eventually shift outside, leaving us with SMEs. This option provides a method of maintaining capital flow into the nation.

Like most of the guys on this forum I've seen prostitutes and talked to them at large after my sessions with them about life in general. What concerns me is the incidence of trafficking and forced prostitution. It is rare but it does occur and I have never come across a case personally. However with the growth of unlicensed prostitutes and agencies operating, it opens the door for organised crime.

With organised crime,whose priority is to deal in a business that makes a profit, it could eventually lead to branching out into drugs and human smuggling problems. I've dealt on a personal basis with drug problems with an ex-girlfriend and it destroys families and lives. Hence my opposition to that.

As it is, these are problems that are still controlled, relative to other countries. My approach in proposing the policy seeks to prevent organised crime and associated vices from growing. Better to have something out there where it can be monitored and controlled, rather than suppressed and allowed to become a social perversion. As long as the government gets its tax, its happy. So a policy of harm reduction.

The legalisation also allows for protection of the prostitutes. I've encountered some who were raped by clients and the fact is most girls are here for the money and are someone's daughters, sisters or mother. We don't think about that since its a turnoff.

Its the ethical thing to extend protection to these women and their managers and facilitate the safe practice of the profession, and prevent any disease or criminal spread in this sector. That's my view of it.

I basically want feedback on what people think in general. SBF seems to be the best forum to pursue this,rather than $$$$$boy which is less established. As for statistics, in my reading, legalised prostitution helps prevent or otherwise minimise sex crimes and allows for a release of the urges all guys have.

[Johnston]

Originally Posted by Manthor

I basically want feedback on what people think in general. SBF seems to be the best forum to pursue this,rather than $$$$$boy which is less established. As for statistics, in my reading, legalised prostitution helps prevent or otherwise minimise sex crimes and allows for a release of the urges all guys have.

YOur preaching to the choir here, buddy. I was sumpin like you when i was a youngun, yeah i was, waxing lyrical about brainy stuff and crap like that

Try your research somewhere else, maybe flowerpod... a

Statistics? Iosef Vissarionovich Stalin: A death is a tragedy, a million is a statistic.....

P.S: i think i shall have a meal of $$$$$ at the near kopi tiam

[sgjoey]

Yes, legalize and regulate by all means.

But the difficulty is actually the moralistic attitude of the populace at large.When the IRs were proposed, it was met by a hue and cry from some sectors of the population, especially the still powerful religion-associated segments. But the IRs had a greater chance to succeed because many Singaporeans were already gambling in one way or another.

Sex is a whole different ball game. Although sexual desire is universal, hypocrisy about sexual desire is also universal. Science has more or less established that non-monogamous behaviour is what we are naturally pre-disposed to. But monogamy is a very hard way of thinking to change -- ever since we took that route about ten thousand years ago or so.

The status quo walks a fine line between the tacit acknowledgement that prostitution is not a crime but without ruffling the feathers of the moralistic populace too much. Tilting the balance towards greater liberalisation officially is quite unlikely to happen in the near future in my opinion.

The latest developments of the crackdowns against online vice operations offers no comfort and is a confirmation that the status quo, or worse. a tilting of the balance in the opposite direction, is the more likely scenario.

Before anything can really change for the better, there must be first be a greater liberalization of social attitudes towards sex in general, and monogamy in particular.

[sammyboyfor]

Originally Posted by sgjoey

Yes, legalize and regulate by all means.

Prostitution is already legal in Singapore. There is nothing to legalise.

[justforfun90]

Originally Posted by sgjoey

Yes, legalize and regulate by all means.

But the difficulty is actually the moralistic attitude of the populace at large.When the IRs were proposed, it was met by a hue and cry from some sectors of the population, especially the still powerful religion-associated segments. But the IRs had a greater chance to succeed because many Singaporeans were already gambling in one way or another.

Sex is a whole different ball game. Although sexual desire is universal, hypocrisy about sexual desire is also universal. Science has more or less established that non-monogamous behaviour is what we are naturally pre-disposed to. But monogamy is a very hard way of thinking to change -- ever since we took that route about ten thousand years ago or so.

The status quo walks a fine line between the tacit acknowledgement that prostitution is not a crime but without ruffling the feathers of the moralistic populace too much. Tilting the balance towards greater liberalisation officially is quite unlikely to happen in the near future in my opinion.

The latest developments of the crackdowns against online vice operations offers no comfort and is a confirmation that the status quo, or worse. a tilting of the balance in the opposite direction, is the more likely scenario.

Before anything can really change for the better, there must be first be a greater liberalization of social attitudes towards sex in general, and monogamy in particular.

I agree with his point of view...it's really not so much of legality but the society's moral values...for ages we've been told monogamy is the only acceptable marriage arrangement here....so to all the women...visiting a prostitute is as good as having an affair....yet few will stop to think why the men went to that extent of visiting prostitutes....
i'm a little bias and i blame AWARE for making so much noise and giving women so much rights while men become the vulnerable gender....but that's just me